Week Eleven: November 4-10: Douglas, Susan Where the Girls Are: Pages 61-121
Some of you have contacted me or posted ideas for your final projects. Feel free to keep them coming. I'm excited about the ideas I've read thus far. My email is kristi.humphreys@ttu.edu, if you need it.
I'm thrilled you like Douglas's style. She has been keeping me laughing for years. The three chapters assigned for this week might resonate less with you than last week’s readings because they are very specific, but I hope you will find areas to relate them to your own lives and art.
Here are some points that I enjoyed:
Page 69 – “For once women started thinking that they could be equal in the bedroom, after a while they started thinking they should be equal in other venues as well.”
Douglas discusses the popularity of the “pregnancy melodrama” in film at length, finding it to be quite influential in how females began questioning the contradictions in their lives. Page 76: “Time and time again, the double standard was attacked as a source of unnecessary misery, and as an unnatural code left over from some less enlightened era.”
Page 81 – “Nonetheless, the seeds of doubt and eventual rebellion were planted, and they grew rather quickly. Like the other mixed messages we were getting, the ones about sex were at war with each other, some telling us we should never, ever behave like boys, the others telling us we had every right to as much sexual freedom and license as they did . . .”
Whereas the Shirelles chapter is largely about music, I see so many connections to the discussions we have had about art, as well. Page 87: “The most important thing about this music, the reason it spoke to us so powerfully, was that it gave voice to all the warring selves inside us struggling, blindly and with a crushing sense of insecurity, to forge something resembling a coherent identity.”
Can you relate this to the role of visual art in your life?
“Even though the girl groups were produced and managed by men, it was in their music that the contradictory messages about female sexuality and rebelliousness were most poignantly and authentically expressed. In the early 1960s, pop music became the one area of popular culture in which female voices could clearly be heard. They sang about the pull between the need to conform and the often overwhelming desire to rebel, about the tension between restraint and freedom, and about the rewards—and costs—of prevailing gender roles.”
Page 97 – “The Shirelles mattered because they captured so well our confusion in the face of changing sexual mores. And as the confusion of real life intersected with the contradictions in popular culture, girls were prepared to start wondering, sooner or later, why sexual freedoms didn’t lead to other freedoms as well.”
Douglas discusses the popularity of quizzes—something that has become quite the trend on Buzzfeed and Facebook. Page 99: “We were desperate to know which type we were, to know ourselves, and we looked to the mass media for answers.”
This chapter also talks about the popularity of the Beatles with females because they redefined masculinity. Females saw in them and their music the masculine and feminine realms blurred. They saw some of themselves in the Beatles.
What points did you enjoy?
**Late post for week 10, 1 of 4**
ReplyDelete“But that’s the job of marketing. Its goal is to create an unending desire inside of us, a vision of a life that is nearly impossible for all but a select few. That way we will all be consistently buying products in the hopes that with this one more thing, we will finally be able to be happy.” Justin Clumpner
I completely agree with what you’ve said here, and I believe that we as a society are SLOWLY beginning to recognize that the confusion and yearning for more within us is actually a premeditated device used by advertisers to separate us from our hard earned money. Every time I think about buying something to make me happy, my mind goes back to my very first “Intro to Media” course where I first learned about the Listerine campaign that was initiated by Gerard Lambert. Prior to 1921, Listerine was introduced to the market as a surgical antiseptic, but it eventually found its way to the shelves as an over-the-counter mouthwash. People weren’t buying mouthwash in 1921, no one even thought of freshening their breath with minty alcohol! To move his product, Lambert launched a campaign that introduced the newly invented societal problem, “halitosis”, more commonly known as bad breath (he did not invent bad breath, just gave it a scientific sounding name). Now, here’s where it gets interesting: Lambert knew that no one thought of, or even cared about, their bad breath; so when he launched his ad campaign he capitalized on an actual growing societal problem, unmarried women in their 20’s-30’s. What was keeping these undesirable women from finding marital bliss? Why, their horrible breath, of course. This was one of the first recognized campaigns that took a real desire that people felt and invented a problem that could be “easily” solved by purchasing their product.
By the 1950’s, advertising firms had this process down to an art. Glance through any “Woman’s Day” from the 1950’s and you will quickly learn how you can become a better cook, maid, mother and consumer while you flip its pages. Most of them are benign on their own, but when you start to look at these ads collectively, the overall message becomes that this was how women could show their worth, by keeping a spotless home with fried chicken and a fluffy cake in the kitchen. It’s no wonder that the mothers during this time were so frustrated when they were expected to raise children, keep a spotless house (all in heels and a winning smile) while simultaneously being told that their contribution to society was minimal. Douglas points out that despite the advertising line that told women their place was in the home, many were still going out to get jobs; yet they were still expected to be in charge of the house. Or worse yet, like in a Woman’s Day article that told women their husbands would be emasculated and unhappy if the women dared to keep a job that earned more income than her husband (Henrietta Ripperger, H. Is ours a beat-up or a built-up man?” March, 1953. Woman’s Day)
As much as I appreciate the growing change on this front during my time as an adult woman, I wonder how much better off we are. Growing up, I was told by my family that I "can" have it all. These days, as an adult woman, I'm told that I "must" have it all. I must have the job, the husband, the kids and the home to prove that I am a fierce yet feminine lioness. What's next?
I am hoping we can get to a point where we can let everyone around us choose whatever path they want. As I see changes in the acceptance of homosexuality and gender identity growing, and a push for paid leave for men and women, I'm hoping it leads to a society where everyone realizes that no one is the same and we can all be cool with that. Everyone can live the life they choose without judgement or guilt. We can eliminate words like prude and slut from our vocabulary and let everyone live and work and mate in whatever way makes them happy. Or we'll just find new ways to bludgeon each other.
DeleteJustin this assumes that free will actually exists :)
DeleteI find this point to be very interesting. At my screening, one of my guy friends came up to me afterwards and started talking to me about how he felt badly for embracing some gender stereotypes. He said, "You know, when I see myself with a son, I always imagine playing baseball with him. It never even crossed my mind to play baseball if I had a daughter." I told him that there is nothing wrong with seeing yourself play baseball with your son! We all have things that we day dream about or believe as a result of our experiences up to that point, but the important thing is not cling to those things when reality does not match up, or when people embrace a different life style. I have often thought that people are so quick to judge differences because they feel that those differences threaten the validity of their own decisions. Safety in numbers, right? Wrong!
DeleteI like your idea, Justin, that we can eventually evolve into a world where people are free to seek their own bliss, without having to carry the extra burden of internal or external judgement. I know its possible. I meet too many intelligent and frustrated people in my day to day life that confirm to me that we are not the only ones who feel this way. Change is coming, and I just have to remind myself to be patient with the media because they will eventually catch up with the rest of us smarty pants.
I had read chapter 3 regarding the flood of teenage movies,some I remember although I was about 7-10 years of age.2 movies from 1960, I watched later on in the 1970's was The Dark at the Top of the Stairs ,screenplay by William Inge and Home from the Hill starring Robert Mitchum.The former was set in Oklahoma of the 1920's.actor Robert Preston of The Music Man fame ,plays a salesman in and out of work.He and his wife fight a lot and she says she cannot make love to him because of their fighting.It is a passionless marriage. Their daughter is coming of age and starts dating a Jewish boy.He gets into an accident and dies.Her friend is bigoted saying anti Semitic and anti roman Catholic rants to her.She is confused.A friend of the wife of the salesman says she hates sex and states that she wished someone would love her enough to hit her! A very poignant film examining bigotry,spousal abuse ,sexuality and the myth of the frigid woman.The later seemed to be an excuse for men to become misogynists. Home from the Hill had a young George Hamilton who is a mamas boy whose father, Mitchum,wants to toughen up.Mitchum has a bastard son George Peppard who does the work for Mitchum.Eleanor Parker plays Mitchum's east Texas wife .She rejects his sexual advances .Mitch regards her as frigid(even though he desperately wants her) and seeks a relationship with the local "loose woman".Mitch's friend would have to seek him out after long wild weekends.Mitch would say "How long was I up there? " This reminds me of the days on TV when they showed married couples having separate beds.It is like America hit a switch from the Victorian age to anything goes for the men, but not the women.
ReplyDeletethat sounds like a pretty intense movie.
Delete**Late post for week 10, 2 of 4**
ReplyDeleteI am so excited to read this book! Douglas's writing style is engaging, funny and thought provoking. The last page (20) of her introduction in particular jumped out at me, "Most women take for granted their own conflicted relationships to the mass media. They assume they are the only ones who love and hate Vogue at the same time." I think that Douglas hit the nail on the head with this one, because I can't tell you how many times I believed I was the only one that felt both anger and envy when I looked at woman with the body of an 11-year old boy stretched across the pages of a magazine. What kind of impossible standard have they been setting us up for? **fun side note: after watching top model, don't judge me, I realized that the reason top designers want a woman with few curves or belly rolls is because it's easier to design and sew clothes for them, not because they are more desirable.**
As I read this passage, I wondered how many women out there feel the same as I do, but we are locked within the fear that we are alone and therefore cannot speak out against the influential media.
I know my life has greatly improved with the advent of the DVR and ad free streaming radio. I rarely ever hear anyone suggest anything that will improve my body or my life.
DeleteI'm with ya on that one Justin - Love Apple TV!
DeleteAmen Justin!
Deleteha ha ha I liked watching top model they have a lot of cool art with the make up and how they design the ads... they can judge me ALL they want lol
DeleteHolly - I like you comment about designing for a rectangular shaped 00 size vs a curvy gal. That is true but they would learn problem solving in designing for the curves. lol! I think that fear still exists today on size. I have friends eating only nuts for breakfast - to stay a size 0 - I find it totally ridiculous. I having a running joke with my husband poking fun at the starved anorexic models
ReplyDeletein JCrew - what if we did a whole catalog on the zombie JCrew expression of a model!
Gail-
DeleteI know what you mean. It seems that all around me, I hear women worrying about their appearance. I too have a love hate relationship with the mirror, but I try to remind myself that my appearance is not the most interesting thing about me. I see young women like Meghan Trainor stepping out and embracing their curves, with predecessors like Queen Latifah and I am encouraged by their strength. Mostly, I admire their honesty in admitting that their self image is a process that like everything in life, has its ups and downs.
Here's a great article from ET online with Trainor where she discusses the motivation behind her song "All about that bass"; she wanted to create a song that she wished she could hear to help her with her insecurities.
Deletehttp://www.etonline.com/news/174516_meghan_trainor_on_body_image_hollywood_no_one_has_ever_told_me_to_go_on_a_diet/
Thanks!!
DeleteI think I’ve been dreading this weeks reading – I didn’t want to lose faith in Doris Day or her movies! Lol! I just loved her movies growing up for the fun innocence they were painted as – in my town they would play her movies on Sun. afternoon. What I think amazes me is Hollywood’s approach with all the starlets to combat the culture they lived in and the teenagers quest for finding themselves…(which came first: their quest or Hollywood suggesting it to them?) In business, Hershey’s creates a lot of different candy bars to gain more shelf space for financial gain. Did Hollywood do the same with the starlets? Entertaining the idea that the teenage market was the biggest so if they threw out several different character types –creating more shelf space on the movie screen they would be rewarded financially. (To them I bet they thought nobody would lose and everybody would be represented – the puritans and the bad girls) Does it crash our illusion of the creative process in Hollywood – selling the teenagers out for their own financial gain? Tsk tsk! Hollywood! But I have to admit – I’m a sucker for it and have fallen into the trap – I already have my Star Wars tickets for Dec 18! LOL!
ReplyDeleteI agree with the comment on page 60 from Ch 2; “The tension from old images and new realities the kind of media lag our mothers lived with still corrodes our sense of self worth. Further down she states; being woman meant you’d be torn into a million directions, ridiculed as dumb, overbearing, incompetent yet scheming and frivolous yet dangerous. Our poor mothers! I think we can see the theory working in current culture of political campaigns. Hillary–frivolous yet dangerous. What also amazes me is how this packaging of the starlets to this generation created identities for the girls to try on (p88) but it also created animosity towards each other once they decided who they were. I still see this animosity or tension in groups between working and non working women. This same tension showed up in the movie, The Intern with Anne Hathaway! Where will it stop! My activism for “loving your sister – all women embracing each others journey comes forth with this chapter!
I have felt the backlash of non working mom's... How could I go to work and not stay home and raise my kids? But some dont realize not everyone has that blessing my husband and i have to work to afford our home our bills so on. But to be honest even when I was a at home mom with my first daughter for the first 9 months I just about lost my mind yes she kept me busy but not enough I had to do something I had to get out of the house. Thats when I started doing photography took her on every shoot and got back into college for art.
DeleteI have seen both sides so I understand and respect each side of mothers the career mom and the stay at home mom each one has its strengths.
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ReplyDelete“For answers—real answers—many of us turned to the record players, radios, and jukeboxes of America.”
ReplyDeleteThis really is the heart of it all. We as a society have so many cultural issues that we feel like we can’t have an open or frank conversation about human sexuality. The idea that there is one way to “behave” is ridiculous, yet every day I see teenagers struggling to either be what they believe is the ideal, or feeling dejected because they can’t. So many of them use popular culture as their navigational north star. There is one benefit for the current generation; they live in the Internet age. There are so many readily available sub-genres that they seemed to have a broader range of acceptable celebrities to mimic. When I was in high school, there were only a handful.
I remember the difficulties of my own path to adulthood. Sexuality was something that couldn’t really be openly discussed. My mother occasionally tried. Once she asked me what my fellow teenagers did on dates and if “heavy petting” was still a thing, but that’s really about it. In college she would email me articles about AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. Every time I had sex, my subconscious was sure that my manhood was going to fall off. I new any question I asked my parents about sex would be answered with the default narrative of “wait until marriage.” And, I knew that was a lie. The movies had told me prom wasn’t successful unless you had sex afterwards, and only losers graduated high school with their virginity intact. Pierce Brosnan taught me that you weren’t a real man unless you could convince any woman to have sex with you with a few smoothly stated lines and the raise of an eyebrow. Those women were never around when the adventure ended; they never carried over to the next film. I spent a majority of my formative years in very brief “relationships,” and quickly moved on when it stopped being convenient. It was really pretty emotionally destructive for everyone involved.
Should there be some sort of responsibility on the part of moviemakers and advertisers for over-sexualizing our young people or inducing eating disorders with their unrealistic and unattainable personas? Aren’t they just as bad as the tobacco industry that showed us how cool smoking would make us without any hint at the consequences that would come with it? Really I should probably blame my parents, but that seems mean. They didn’t know any better. As the book points out, they were left pretty ill equipped by their own parents and culture. They can hardly be blamed for an inability to successfully navigate me through my own.
My mom and dad never discussed sex with me. Shoot my mom didn't event\ tell me about menstruation, tampons just magically showed up in the cabinet under my bathroom sink. Whatever disappeared was immediately refilled. Ha. Good thing the tampon boxes came with pictorial direction--IKEA instructions for girlhood.
DeleteMy mom's one sex talk came the night before I got married. She told me, "your dad said I need to talk with you about sex." then the content of her sex talk was one paragraph on the practical impact of gravity on fluids post consummation. Ended up she was right. I still laugh about this.
It is also funny because my mom wasn't that big of a prude. Once as adults I was bantering with two sister-in-laws while in the kitchen. No idea how we got on the topic of sex frequency as compared to national statistical averages, but my mom walked in hearing our conversation. She was a bit taken aback by each of our personal weekly or lack there of frequency. Almost braggartly and definitely with the implications of pleasure she stated, "your dad and I have sex EVERYDAY." It took a long moment before my sister-in-laws and I could pull our dropped jaws up off the floor. Then again, we did have a problem with her patting the male nurses and aids on the rump in the nursing home as her impulse control diminished with disease. Thank god for the double standard and that she did not suffer the same consequences as if she had been a man patting a female nurse on the fanny. Though my dad and I did have to meet with the social to figure out how to manage my mom's wandering hands :) double standards.
Kathryn,
DeleteThanks for your thoughts!I truly think all of this is how we were raised and the American and world culture at that time in history.When I was 16, I had asked my grandmother how I should ask a girl out on a date.Sex was seldom if ever discussed simply because they did not know how to talk about as their forebears before.I am grateful that I had experienced her strength and stability to draw from when my mother was just plain weird.It was a transition of culture ,a radical shift from prudishness to free love.I believe it also had something to do with which part of the country you were raised in .The Midwest was a bit slower to respond to the change. For boys we drooled on Playboy,etc.Movies were more sexed up beginning in the late 1960's.50 years ago The Pawn broker (page 72)starring Rod Steiger,had shown a topless scene and mixed races, a double mold breaker-this is a very important movie to watch as it details a Holocaust survivor and his shop in changing1960s NYC.The Hollywood code was broken.I want to say that in spite of all my mother's strangeness,she allowed my girlfriend to live with us for awhile in the early 1970's.She had been molested by her father.This was the first time I had heard about such things.These things went on behind closed doors and "if these walls could speak",etc.
My parents didn't discuss the act of sex until the night before my wedding but they did pass on the story of my grandfather and grandmother's premarital pregnancy.
DeleteI think my mom must have been assuming we were getting the facts and need to know info in the school with the new sex ed stuff being added into the curriculum.
DeleteI agree with you Kathryn - I'm pretty sure my mom thought the same! lol!
DeleteI grew up in a fairly liberal house, to say the least. In high school, my mom made sure we knew where the condoms were (on the kitchen counter, next to the toaster, of course) and how to put them on properly. However, because of my mothers CONSTANT talk of sex and partying (she was a bit of a party-goer herself) I ended up on the other spectrum--feeling totally left out that I hadn't needed to use a single condom by HS graduation. Like I was some nerdy freak and I was expected to be out there having tons of hormonal sex. I was anything but the images Hollywood sent out of women who had lines of boys fighting for her. Frank discussions are needed, but healthy discussions on being a woman without a man.
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DeleteThis issue is near and dear to my heart after I conducted man on the street interviews last semester and over the summer. Again, I thought I was the only one who's parents didn't really go into the "sex" talk until I was much older and had already had a bad experience. Many of the people that I talked to, however, soon confirmed that they didn't hear about sex from their parents, they had heard it from their friends or television. Sex education In school was very reminiscent of some the Sunday sermons that would scare me straight as I was told that sex was basically either going to get me pregnant or stuck with a life long disease that would make me blind or crazy. I took this VERY seriously at first, but after experiencing a much less prudent single life as a twenty-year old, I lightened up and stopped shaming myself. Now, I wish to wag my index finger at the parents in my mom's generation for trying to stick to the "wait until marriage" party line. It is not realistic to think that children (especially teenagers) will do what they're told. I was the type of teenager that spent all my free time at the church and I STILL ended up having sex before marriage. Justin, you are right, television and movies made having sex COOL, and the only way to really get to know someone intimately.
DeleteSo, the way I see it, we have two extremes between education and popular culture offering up perspectives on when to have sex, who to have it with, and how to have it (depending on what you're in to!) I feel that filmmakers do have an ethical obligation to portray a healthy perspective instead of only showing the deviancy, but I also know deep down that it won't happen. Sex sells, deviancy jumps off the screen and we have all been consuming it for a century (just moving pictures, that is). I also think that its important for all perspectives to be available, because we need to decide the difference between right and wrong for ourselves. That should be our focus, not labeling every thing "good" or "bad" for everyone, but teaching one another HOW to look at the facts, their feelings, and to make a decision that feels right to them.
Nice Holly. Agreed.
Delete"It is not realistic to think that children (especially teenagers) will do what they're told."
It didn't work out so well for god and the apple situation either :)
yup TV, friends, and mostly my older cousin victoria taught me a few things... I did know about my period because my grandmother shared a really sad story with me when she was young and she told me about pads but I didnt need to use tampons cause I was a virgin she said that only married women used tampons.
DeleteSo, I had "the talk" in the 3rd grade. And it was basically my mom sat me down and read a book with me that laid out the biology of sex. It was illustrated in a colorful minimalist style very simple. It was like, oh okay, that's it, that's where babies come from. Then this knowledge was just reinforced and expanded on in school with sex ed (where they did talk about stds, contraceptives (only if someone asked, and usually someone did), etc.).
DeleteBut my mom was always reinforcing in me and my sister, that education is first, boys cannot take priority over that. And that made sense to me, I had seen some girls get pregnant (there were a couple that did in middle school and then more in high school) and it was hard on them. I was really focused on school (some things don't change).
But this meant I lost a couple of friends, one in particular who had decided that nothing else mattered as much as boys and sex...we didn't have much to talk about in the end.
Kimberly, I feel like that is a pretty healthy approach to sex ed. Open, honest, no secrets, but emphasis that boys/sex is not the most important thing in life.
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DeleteYep, no complaints from me. It certainly made school easier because I focused on that more, and that matters. My boyfriend is very supportive of school, one of the many reasons I love him. He knows that I have to stay focused, we are there for each other/ support each other in our endeavors. :)
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ReplyDeleteI find Douglas’s work to be really enjoyable. I just get what she is saying, in part because I have, in an altered sense (being that I was a kid of the 90s and 00s, not a baby boomer), experienced some of these issues – women are still being pulled in different directions and being stereotyped/misrepresented/underrepresented/maligned/etc. in the media. As a, in case you missed it, Birkentstock owning feminist - they are the closed toe clogs so deal with it (no bras burnt here, and reminder, they were never burnt at all – the 1968 ‘bra-burning’ headline was fictitious), the fact that there are similarities appearing even today in the representation of women and the discussion of feminism itself, means there is still work to do.
ReplyDeleteDouglas writes in part to highlight the strangeness of women’s identities in the media – and what affect that it had on them. It was so interesting reading the chapter, “Sex and the Single Girl” because of all those mixed signals, but also the burgeoning feminist development. As Douglas notes at the end of the chapter,
the double standard exerted a powerful hold over most teens in the early and mid-1960s. For one thing, the majority of us were still too young to say yes anyway, and it was no small feat to shake the warnings from one’s parents or Ann Landers – especially for girls who lived in small towns, where gossip traveled quickly and imposed rigid codes of behavior. Nevertheless, the seeds of doubt and eventual rebellion were planted, and they grew rather quickly. Like other mixed messages we were getting, the ones about sex were at war with each other, some telling us we should never, ever behave like boys, the others telling us we had every right to as much sexual freedom and license as they did, especially now that we could avoid getting pregnant.
But we didn’t get these contradictory messages just in movies or in magazines. We got them every time we turn on the radio, or our record players, or threw a quarter in the jukebox. We sang these mixed messages to ourselves day and day out for years, branding ambivalence, defiance, and fear onto the innermost reaches of our psyches. (Douglas, 81)
Women and young girls still see these mixed messages. I remember watching teen films like “She’s All That” where the girl gets the guy after the ever-present makeover – as in they took out the ponytail and took off the glasses. As someone who has worn glasses since the age of 7, I was not a fan.
Yet, there was also stuff like Daria on MTV. Daria was a feminist for sure, and her dry sarcasm and evaluation of the world and its messages was really refreshing in the sea of teen stereotyped films and messages. Thank goodness for reruns. Growing up I saw a lot of mixed messages, but this is why I am glad as I said last week, that my parents really pushed me to watch more than just what was out at the time, because in some instances I could see how far we have come, and in others how far we have to go.
The media still impacts feminism and its perception- look at the development and use of the term ‘feminazi’
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/01/feminazi-feminists-women-rights-feminism-charlotte-proudman
And,
Malala Yousafzai as reported by NPR today calls herself a feminist:
“In the interview, Yousafzai tells Watson that her September 2014 #HeForShe speech, which called on men to support gender equality, inspired her to embrace the term.
"This word, feminism, it has been a very tricky word. When I heard it the first time, I heard some negative responses and some positive ones," Yousafzai says in the video.
"I hesitated in saying am I a feminist or not and then after hearing your speech, when you said 'if not now, when? If not me, who?' I decided that there's no way and there's nothing wrong by calling yourself a feminist, so I am a feminist. And feminism is another word for equality."”
Here’s the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/11/06/455012172/viral-video-emma-watson-inspires-malala-to-call-herself-a-feminist
Kimberly - I think Princess Diaries gives a mixed message as well - fix her up like a princess and shell have it all!
DeleteYep. There is usually a makeover in some form in the standard teen film. But, I like it when the other supporting characters call them out on it. Or when they realize it's not about the makeover, or that it doesn't work, like in 'Clueless' when Tai returns more to her style at the end of the film.
DeleteAlso, just realized my block quote from the book came out weird... should be indented beginning with "the double standard" and ending with "reaches of our psyches". Sigh. My obsession with formatting is kicking in!
See Kathy, I'm totally the opposite. I have no idea what's going on historically. I mean, I know the history, but in no way can relate to it. This is a great read, but I feel very distant from the subject. I feel like I'm approaching this text as a history book, with a fun little spin.
DeleteI used to watch Daria ... it is true we still get a lot of mixed messages and advertising is still driven towards woman how to keep us fit, young, etc. Heck get on Instagram all it is, is skinny this and wrap this UGH
DeleteKimberly-
DeleteYou are so right about the ever present makeover that turns the "ugly duckling" into the beautiful swan that the popular boy will now pay attention to. Sadly, that is not just in movies, although I do think that Gail raised an excellent point in her post where she wondered whether art first imitated life or whether we first imitated the art through "trying on" different female roles. In my own personal life, I was quite awkward for the first 33 years of my life and I was unhappy with my weight. Now that I've shed the weight and gained confidence, I've noticed the difference in the way people respond to me. *Cue Freddy Prince Jr. to take me to a belated dance for prom* I cannot help but wonder how much of my own new found empowerment and confidence is tied up in losing weight and finding my own style. If it is all connected, then am I happy because I overcame a life long struggle with my weight? Or is it because I now fit into a mold of attractiveness?? (I am not trying to be vain, but this is something that concerns me) Through this class, and the class that I had with Dr. Humphreys last semester, I have begun to start questioning where my values and beliefs originate, and in doing so I have found the values of equality, respect, service and hard work which mean more to me than being the ideal woman (attractive, demure, graceful, soft spoken). Your post also brings up the badly promoted feminist show Daria. This show was coming out as I was coming of age, but I barely noticed it amid "Beavis and Butthead" or "Ren and Stimpy" or (my favorite to this day) "South Park". I never stopped to think about why that is until you mentioned her character as a voice of feminism. Is it just bad luck for the show producers, or is there a larger connection here?
On movies and sexism. Hmmmm.
ReplyDeleteMy first movie in a theater I ever saw in a theater was 1965ish. We lived on Governer's Island in NY City and my mom took me on the ferry boat and we rode into the city to see MARY POPPINS. She was definitely liberated in my three year old mind. Though I didn't really care that much about Mary Poppins because I was smitten with Bert!!! My first crush.
But still the point being, relative to our readings and media, Mary Poppins pretty much didn't need a man and was quite independent. Of course this was partially countered when Mary Poppins then became Maria in my second movie, Sound of Music. Though independent, she still seemed to need a man.
My third movie in a theater happened to be at a drive in theater. We piled blankets and pillows on the roof of my best friend's parents station wagon to watch Planet of the Apes (~1970)--I remember being bothered by the sexy human females that couldn't talk...I was definitely aware of them as sex objects. And then I found the gender tension funny between Zira and her mate with community expectations. Even though I was in fourth or fifth grade I was aware that this was a commentary on current gender tensions relative to work and woman's place.
I don't recall women being significant in my first R rated movie -- Blazing Saddles :) ha.
Kathryn-
DeleteI love Julie Andrews growing up, especially Victor Victoria! Andrews did teach us that you could be a strong,single woman, so long as you stuck to taking care of the kids or an artistic pursuit.
now television was a whole other matter...sexism, female as smart or manipulative but sex object, was definitely modeled--Gilligan's Island, I Dream of Jeanie, The Beverly Hill Billy's, Star Trek.
ReplyDeleteI am reminded of Dr H's lecture on the bad girl and the brunette Jeanie. Blondes= good, Brunettes= bad .... and throughout art history red heads= hang on to your hats!
DeleteI particularly dislike how television deals with family dynamics. Husbands are pitiful drooling idiots and wives are nagging soul sucking witches. What happened?
I agree, the only exceptions to this sometimes, are The Goldberg's and The Middle.The irony is that I thought the idea was equality instead of one person out doing the other?I guess the bumbling idiots aspect is what is funny.One thing which is forgotten is that at least on programs like Father Knows Best and Leave it to Beaver,the husbands did wash/wipe off the dishes! In raising 4 boys, my wife and I just did what was needed to do .So, if I knew how to do something she couldn't it got done and vice versa.Who has time to stop and figure out who does what when things have to get done.I think the writers of these programs do not have children/families so the stereotypes remain.
Deletesigh, you would think TV would figure it out to help us figure it out or is it that we figure it out and then TV follows our lead. :)
Deleteis TV reflective or does it perform it into being? both of course. no such thing as binary (mostly. isn't saying there is not such thing as binary, a binary exclamation -- it is or it is not = binary options :) ).
Television and Movies ask to be considered as art, well art reflects like right? I hope my family doesn't look like Everybody Loves Raymond, such an old show but I don't ever really watch the now TV.
Delete**1/1 for last week.
ReplyDeleteSo, in reading Douglas' introduction and subsequent chapters. I was really interested in her talk and analysis of her mother's generation. She notes, on page 52, "In the immediate postwar era, our mothers were told that they were inferior to men and, at the same time, that they were vastly superior." Women during WWII were integral, as they filled the labor gap - and they did so well. Thinking about the media campaign at the time, it was everywhere and it was smart because it played into both nationalism and individualism. That every single person, regardless of gender or background, could do their bit. Great Britain also had this campaign, clearly even before the Americans did, with a number of women going to the fields, factories, air, and even underground - becoming spies (I wrote a paper in high school on female spies in WWII, fascinating subject).
After all that effort they were certainly, yes, relieved when the men starting coming home, that they could rebuild and renew their lives - but I could also get that anger, later, when they were told they were no longer needed or wanted in the workforce. That they were then told they weren't good enough by the very same media, as Douglas notes, that had just been praising them. Talk about a 180.
Films reflected that, they also showed that tension coming home in such films as 'The Best Years of Our Lives' (1946) - Myrna Loy is great, but as Shohini Chaudhiri, referencing Kaja Silverman, notes the tension is in part from men returning home to find other men having taken their roles, and "more disturbingly [their roles were taken] by women," too (2006). The film is powerful, and shows the damage of war on many levels. While it certainly places a more distinct lens on the men, when I watch it, I see a cast of strong women too.
Oh, and I am gonna just throw this in here too:
http://www.bustle.com/articles/66378-8-surprisingly-feminist-moments-in-old-hollywood-movies
I don't know how I feel about "Sex and the Single Teenager". I asked my grandfather a long time ago about women in the 60s, and how things were when he was in high school in the 50s. He said that there were girls that had sex and they were the "bad girls" (pg 66). But he also qualified his statement with, we didn't really talk about sex though. "It was understood that you waited until you were married", he'd say. And he followed through. He married my grandfather at 18 and they have been married for 50+ years. And they are incredibly happy. On the flip side I have known dozens of couples who didn't wait for marriage, married in their 30s, and divorced. So I have no idea how to rationalize all of that.
ReplyDeleteMy grandparents didn't wait until marriage - they got married because grandma was pregnant - They had 50 plus years together and died within 6 month's of each other. I'm not sure that either had a tv or radio in their household and I have no idea what they used to navigate their thoughts. I like Justin's quote from above about the influence of tv or the internet to navigate life...for me Happy Days and Lavern and Shirley were my idea of community and family.
DeleteI wonder if it is easier to stay married if you have no choice. My mother never saw divorce as an option, so even when Dad was an asshat, she new they would stay married and they figured out ways to make it work. Sometimes I think people enter marriage today with the understanding that they can just leave if it gets difficult. And, sometimes divorce is beneficial. I have remarried friends that are happier than they've ever been. I know for some divorcees it's difficult not to see their divorce as a failed marriage, but I don't believe that is accurate.
DeleteMarriage is one of the toughest things that I have had to do. And I didn't enter into lightly, I new that marriage was for life. But I think a few years ago my mother, who is twice divorced, who said something really awesome to me. "Well Katie, you've got to work it out." It is so simple, but the very fact that she said there is no out really made me want to work harder. And now that I have a daughter, I want to work even harder to give her the kind of home that I never had.
DeleteI did think that the discussion on page 64 was particularly interesting. About the Cathoilc church and the men who make the "rules". It is so tough to make these decisions about sex and women's health care.
ReplyDeleteI have my own moral/ethical feelings and opinions about these issues but I do think that it is very interesting that so many of these regulations about birth control, abortion, etc are made by men. In the House, there are currently 362 men and 76 women. In the Senate, there are 17 women and 83 men. (http://thisnation.com/congress-facts.html) And I am sure the that ratios were even further apart in the 60s. And as we all know the Catholic church is highly patriarchal. I am not attaching men's opinions, they are very valuable, but I find it highly one-sided that even today they are the one's who make the rules when we are in fact the ones that we are adminitering the 2:00 AM feedings (pg 64). In my case it was 4:00 AM feedings for a while. How is it that women make up 50.8 percent of the total U.S. and we are overwhelmingly underrepresented.
good point! I didnt even think about some of the numbers between men and woman and where we are in these positions.
DeleteI would like to comment on pp.113-121 especially as to the Beatles.I remember going to the movie theater to watch "A Hard days Night" and later on "Help!" The fun part of the "mop tops" as they were called was the energy they exuded.I was 10 years younger than they but they acted like teenagers(they were 21-25 years old )they were so popular and we were so young.The only thing negative I had ever heard was that they looked like girls! Everything was changing.I used to listen to a talk show program in 1967 with controversial topics like abortion,homosexuality,Vietnam war.it made me think about what was happening to society.My parents still lived like it was the 50's,but I knew I was living in a new paradigm.My progressive HS teacher said that we all had to watch TV, especially the news ,go to movies,read the newspaper and occasionally the text book! the Beatles came to St. Louis in 1966 for one concert-I was 13 .They played in Busch Stadium home of Cardinals baseball.The gateway arch was up,modernism was in full swing.Even a James Bond movie Goldfinger, acknowledge them: in Bond’s apartment in Miami, when he gets out of bed to get more ice, he tells the protesting Jill, “Some things just aren’t done. Like drinking Dom Perignon ’53 above 38 degrees Farenheit. That’s as bad as listening to the Beatles without earmuffs.”
ReplyDelete"it gave voice to all the warring selves inside us struggling, blindly and with a crushing sense of insecurity, to forge something resembling a coherent identity."
ReplyDeleteCan you relate this to the role of visual art in your life?
absolutely. I know some arrive at "forging something resembling a coherent identity" from looking at art, but I can't get their from looking. Its not that I don't absorb conventions and resist conventions in my coalescing identity by looking, but for me it is in the process of making that i find myself, that i tap my emotions. subsequent to the making i arrive at what the making was showing me.
though i am a tad younger, barely, than the douglas, and i recognize the song titles in her text and could probably sing and fake my way along with a handful, I do not know the entire songs. because identity is so pliable to context, i am actually quite thankful that my parents limited our TV watching. and though might find it a loss, they didn't have music playing in the house and the tv never ran in the background. and though i think identity is largely contextually (socially) constituted, i do thing it is ground in our psychological disposition, chemistry, physical and neurological capacities, learning styles, etc. all these things roll around and simmer together to form our malleable selves. and from within context and my biological systems, i locate myself in order to find my way. how are younger generations that aren't sent outside to play but instead our surrounded by media always piping shaped? is it different? playing outside i think gave me time to process, unconsciously, all the messages i was receiving to work out how and how i did not fit with each. in many ways i had viewer options and had the time to try some of them on for fit? kids now have so many messages drowning them? do they have the time to process for fit? are they more malleable for it? can they change and adapt more quickly? is it just different? i don't assume one context is better than the other, but i do wonder how it is different--in processing, adaption, freedom, constraint, etc?
or is more just like the walmart shampoo rack today versus thirty years ago? there are a lot more options for shampoo. ones that the adds tell me can make me sexier, younger, fuller, defrizzier, etc. but to me they just read like different packaging and adv of the same thing. so there appears to be more options but are there really more or is it just packaging?
are the options for acceptable gendered behavior more expansive or just wrapped slightly differently? i do think there are more options per our previous conversations -- vocational options spanning from motherhood, motherhood plus non familial work, non familial work plus motherhood, and non familial work period. each has pros and cons as we have discussed, you can't have it all. but within these life task options, have the conventions of how i do woman within them been expanded....i do wear pants! on an occasion when i really want to slap on my femininity it still means dress!? or does it? sigh.
ramble.
Kathy – I see exactly what you are saying! I feel like my daughter’s generation doesn’t want to be like their mother either (which ever option Mom chose working or non working) but I do feel like those girls are having a crisis of confidence at an earlier age in their decision as well. My daughter and I have discussed this – she wants authenticity yet on her terms not culture’s terms. But they are stunned when they realize (quicker than I did) that they are dealing with the same movement in the wheel of life and not seeing more progress that is suppose to be given to them on the silver tray! I keep trying to tell my daughter to just embrace and dwell on the good of who you want to be – she is a performance major (undergraduate) now in graduate school of Baylor Truet seminary and when she graduates in 3 years she will have a deaf education masters and Christian arts masters hoping to bring these gifts to ministry or performance – yet to be determined. Her generation has grown up with the culture expectation that they can work and should work but I see some of them wrestling with this as well.
DeleteAlso, I really loved the Beatles chapter – who knew! Lol! She’s got the devil in her Heart – made me wonder about the culture I dealt with…Dr H. you asked “Can I relate to the role of visual art in your life” – absolutely! I was left alone in 6th grade – the summers I spent watching all the old reruns of I Love Lucy, the Dick Van Dyke show, Brady Bunch, Gidget, Bewitched, the Monsters, Gilligan’s Island, Mary Tyler Moore and all the others that are stated in the last 2 chapters. Yet in the afternoon you could find me playing outside on the “make believe balance beam winning the gold medal – every time or swimming all afternoon at the local pool – again winning the gold medal in my imaginary play! (Man I was good! Lol)
ReplyDeleteIt was very easy to take on the “Cinderella” role and have resentment towards Mom cause she was working and I was stuck doing the chores! Once I had the choice – I put the ambition of paid work aside to nurture my kids through their young life. Only realizing – I was becoming as grumpy as my mother – lol! Culture expectations vs my expectations! I think every woman has to come to terms with her “self” and realize what we want personally beyond the voice of culture, then we begin to navigate what makes sense for us – I’m perfectly fine with my decisions – I don’t want to have it all at once! I’m very thankful for my spiritual north star that has navigated me because I feel I truly found myself.
On another note – I felt like Michael Jackson’s music was a cultural wave of “freedom to be yourself and love everybody!” His music always made that kind of impression on me! (His 70’s/80’s music) I have always had friends that don’t look like me – a white girl with blue eyes. My friends have always been very multicultural! My favorite aunt was ½ Italian Am. and ½ African American. This has always stunned my parents but ironically my friends very much personified a conservative personality type – now what do you make of that! Lol!! I think I got this same impression from Richie and the Fonz’s friendship as well. LaVern and Shirley well that was suppose to be my sister and mine’s “perfect” relationship! But we aren’t that at all! Gosh – was this just too telling?
Catch Up wk 10
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Pg 60 “…this tension between old images and new realities, the kind of media lag our mothers lived with, still corrodes women’s sense of self-worth, of what we’re entitled to, and what we can rightly ask of our men.”
I couldn’t underline this entire page enough. She gets me! I cannot begin to vent about the trouble new mothers face in TODAY’S society—confusion over roles around the house, with our men, the guilt over working outside the home, and the material “needs” we are told to have in order to make a happy home. The constant teetering of roles new mothers have… so many moms I know quit their careers after having their baby, or go to part time, only to add work hours back in, searching to find the balance that is supposed to be there. Feminist movements don’t seem to have cleared up much for working moms over the 40+ yrs.
This chapter reaffirmed my latest artistic inspiration: I want to do a photographic series on new mothers that I know or run in to. I want to capture the textured lives of today’s mothers and the infinitely diverse mothering/career choices they make.
Catch Up Wk 10
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In response to Justin’s comments on Walt Disney, heroes, and clothes shopping for toddlers…
I was recently introduced to the documentary “Mickey Mouse Monopoly” (youtube it!) and made my husband sit through and watch excerpts off youtube. At first he was skeptical that the media, particularly “innocent” cartoons played such a dramatic role in kids psyche and gender roles. But when they started talking about Disney’s representations of masculinity—he was more convinced. I am constantly looking for portrayals of men for my son that defy stereotypes and offer other noble characteristics to model (such as grace and gentleness). The clothes and toys also bother me, as after my son’s 1st bday party, our home was filled with camo and dump trucks. As hard as it is for girls to find themselves in superhero roles, I wonder what effects it has when my son has few female roles he can see himself in?
Also, how much as parents are we responsible for normalizing our child? I could see it also being problematic to guard our children from pop-culture and therefore making them "outsiders." Which is more dangerous?
DeleteOh so many things to think about!
DeleteThat's a great question Justin. I think raising your child to be distrustful of popular culture not only alienates them from their peers, but also robs them of what makes being a human bearable. I believe that we should them to pay attention to the parts of their culture that brings out the best in themselves, and to confront and resolve the things that bring out the worst.
DeleteCatch Up Week 10
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Like many in class have mentioned already, Douglas’ writing style really captures me. Her sarcastic voice and direct language makes this book fun even when a lot of the history is so new to me that I cannot find a common ground to relate. She offers a fuller picture of feminism than I have read before—one that doesn’t just focus on the extremes. I think even my husband would enjoy this book!
Catch Up Week 10
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I am looking forward to talking to my Dad about what I’ve been reading so far. He is a late baby boomer, and much of his stories of family life and growing up with my grandmother—his mother—seems to make so much more sense after reading this book! My grandmother worked and took care—exclusively—of 6 children. My Dad was my biggest feminist cheerleader growing up, saying I could do whatever a boy could do—and maybe even better. I bet a lot of the confusion and contradictions in the 60’s influenced him and his perceptions of his mother.
***Off topic***
ReplyDeleteYou know you've fallen behind when Blogger makes you prove you're not a robot because you've been posting so many Catch Up posts.....
Haha! I feel you Courtney.
Delete"Month after month, we sharpened our pencils and took another quiz..." pg 99.
ReplyDeleteWow how many times did I do this in my preteen years? I remember my mother bought me a bunch of pre-teen/teen magazines to "help" me during those awkward middle school years... and I remember my favorite part, the pages that I'd turn to first, were the quizzes. I desperately wanted to know what kind of girl I was! I wanted to find my box, my place in the world--and then soak up every inch of advice on what kind of boy suited me and how to reel him in.
I wonder what alternatives can we give our girls? One of my favorite art teacher mentors told me, during student teaching at his middle school, that kids LOVE to talk about and figure out who they are. The best assignments, he said, are ones that are about the kids. It gets them critically thinking about who they are, what they like... and then sharing with each other about those things.
thats nice... I should do something with my girls thats one on one as a mother and daughter to help them get to know themselves better and for me to get to know their little hearts better too :)
DeleteI always had problems with those quizzes. I felt like I could identify with all four of the choices most of the time. But I like your mentor's advice to use art to explore who you are. That gets them in touch with their authentic selves, without a canned answer coming from a writer in Manhattan.
DeleteI would always be so frustrated with my results from those things. I think the only quiz I was ever happy with was the one for : 'which Jane Austen heroine are you?' - I got Anne Elliott / Elinore Dashwood. I am not necessarily like either one, but I was happy with the result nonetheless. I think I really wanted to just define myself (like we all do as teenagers) but not with a magazine alone, I didn't want to be a cookie cutter girl. I wanted to be something else, me. My parents always tried to get me to stay away from fads and the like, because those fade, what remains and what endures is you - so just be you. I am sounding very Millennial to myself now... but hey my childhood was in part defined by the Girl Power movement, and while that was certainly a way to make money off young girls - at least it was saying we could do more.
DeleteJust a little note to all you guys. I've noticed that a lot of us have been getting behind in our work a little, posting late, and I have totally been doing it to. This is the part of the semester that gets really hard!!! With work, school, family, friends, everything. I just want to wish everyone some extra strength! Finish the semester strong, good luck everyone! We can do it! Go team!
ReplyDeleteha ha ha thanks! my daughter has been getting sick so much and I am due in 6 weeks and work woo!! Just NEVER a dull moment ;o)
Deletesending positive vibes and strength to everyone as well!!!
Ugh! Amen Katharine!
DeleteWell I did want to mention that this weekend I was going through netflix and saw "how to marry a millionaire" and WOW i may have lost some brain cells. Even my husband was like "is this real?" but he did mention something that i didnt think of about that time he said "I wonder how many men built empires just to keep that kind of woman?"
ReplyDeleteThis weeks chapters were great. relating to music I dont know how many times I've heard a song and just felt like that was my anthem at the time. Today actually driving to work they did a on air interview with Gwen Stephani and she mentioned her new song and her chorus says "I dont know why I cry but I think its cause I remember for the first time since I hated you I used to love you" I think anyone who has had their heartbroken can relate. She said in her interview that "being honest and truthful in her music is what helps her heal..." "being in the studio helps her so much" and "we were given this gift from God this art" as an artists when I listened to her speak I was just like YES i agree. Music all art when it comes from the heart it can really resonates with people.
Douglas speaks about the magazine quizzes and how it speaks to self-couches girls and I had to laugh because I used to ALWAYS take those quizzes and try to see what those A, B or C answers could teach me about myself (because they know us best right)
She mentioned in the book she was catholic and how she felt betrayed when her parents spoke about "nice" girls and how they didnt do certain things being raised by people the same age as her parents I could hear my grandparents saying the same to me. My grandmother was NEVER shy to say that boys ONLY used you and if they ever tried anything to KICK them. For me personally this planted a seed not to trust guys. I hardly had a serious boyfriend in high school or in college my ex that I married was the longest relationship I had a year of dating then 8 years of marriage. My now husband we dated for 3 years before we married. I wish I would have trusted a little more back then. As a mother of now two girls (second one joining in dec) I will defiantly explain things differently.
Page 87: “The most important thing about this music, the reason it spoke to us so powerfully, was that it gave voice to all the warring selves inside us struggling, blindly and with a crushing sense of insecurity, to forge something resembling a coherent identity.”
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dr. H. I believe that this can apply to all forms of art because regardless of what medium the artist uses, they can still have a conversation/connection with the viewer. I have particularly enjoyed the analogy that Douglas has made a few times of "trying on different roles" through music and television. That is one of the reasons I devour stories from books, television and films because I loved the idea of losing yourself in another personality for a brief moment. That is also probably why I always loved acting on the stage in high school, it gave me a break from being me for a bit. And for better or for worse, this surrender into another role also turned out to be a great teacher for me in many cases. From Blanch Dubois, I learned how it feels to be desperate yet condescending in A Streetcar Named Desire. Ann and Nancy Wilson let me strut my wild side around the living room as I sang "Magic Man". And yes, I guiltily enjoyed being a space alien stepmom with Kim Bassinger. (My Stepmom is an Alien? Please tell me I'm not the only one that watched that growing up!)
Each of the roles I tried on, male or female, gave me a sense of who I did and did NOT want to be. But mostly, it just let me try a bunch of different ways of being in a safe environment.
I agreed with this idea, that we learn a lot from music, books, art, etc. I read a lot (and continue to, though more for school these days) and it definitely impacted me. There were certain books that taught a lot of lessons, and movies too. Movies like 'Shop Around the Corner' made me want to write letters (and wear hats, I loved the hats). 'Witness for the Prosecution' made me realize Agatha Christie's genius (that and Poirot). My sister and I watched a lot of period dramas - anything Jane Austen and we were on it. I wanted to be that witty. As cool as Barbara Stanwyck in 'Ball of Fire', I hummed the song Match Boogie for weeks after seeing the film in high school. We learn from our surroundings, and ourselves, and that is in part what makes the media and pop culture so powerful - its influence. But, we too have power - to decide what we want to be, whether to be like those characters or not, we just have to realize we have that power.
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